Generic Software Won’t Scale You — Building Your EdgeFactor® Will | The Disruptors #3

Show: The Disruptors Episode: 03

Publish Date: 09 June 2025

Most tech delivers features. Yours should deliver Profit, enable Scale, and build enterprise Value.

In this episode of The Disruptors, Ritesh Shah and Julian Wallis break down why most businesses stall when they rely on off-the-shelf systems. From broken customer portals to tangled ERP setups, they show how building your own tech — designed around PSV Thinking® — creates more than just efficiency. It builds long-term business value.

This isn’t about reinventing the wheel. It’s about owning the vehicle.

Whether you’re planning your first portal or struggling with a legacy tech stack, this episode gives you a practical lens for building systems that scale with you — not hold you back.

Timestamps

00:00:45 – What a Portal Should Really Do
Why “just enough” functionality isn’t enough — true customer self-service is the starting point.

00:02:12 – PSV Thinking® on Every Screen
Every portal feature should link back to profit, scale or value — otherwise, it’s just noise.

00:03:05 – Defining a Customer Portal
A working definition that applies across industries: a platform that empowers full self-service.

Where It Goes Wrong
00:10:53 – Off-the-Shelf Isn’t an Advantage
Generic platforms are built for everyone — and valuable to no one.

00:11:13 – ERP Integrations That Don’t Work
When your source of truth is flawed, your portal becomes an expensive band-aid.

00:14:35 – Bad Data = Bad Business
Poor data structure ruins scalability, AI-readiness, and decision-making.

00:25:07 – The Hidden Cost of “Just Change It”
Why even a simple tweak in a flawed system can trigger a full replatform.

How to Get It Right
00:16:20 – Think Structure, Not Just Features
Scalable systems are built on well-structured data and long-term thinking.

00:32:02 – Build Systems That Become Assets
Custom platforms can become your IP — and your competitive moat.

00:35:12 – Self-Service That Drives Profit
It’s not just about customer convenience — it’s about operational leverage.

00:38:11 – Don’t Overbuild Too Early
Trying to do everything at once guarantees you’ll do nothing well.

00:40:43 – PSV Thinking® Recap: The 3-Point Test
 If it doesn’t deliver profit, scale, or value — don’t build it.

The tools you build should be the reason customers choose you — not the thing you apologise for.

Key Takeaways from this Episode

• Most tech stacks fail because they’re built for operations, not outcomes
• Off-the-shelf systems rarely deliver enterprise value
• Every custom build should tie back to PSV Thinking®
• Structured data is the backbone of future-ready platforms
• Your EdgeFactor™ isn’t a feature — it’s a business advantage

Transcript

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:00:01:05 – 00:00:38:02)
Welcome to The Disruptors. The show for manufacturers, wholesalers, and industrial businesses building their EdgeFactor® through digital transformation that actually delivers. Every week, we unpack real stories, strategies, and lessons using PSV Thinking®, a practical framework focused on one thing: driving Profits, enabling Scale, and building long-term Enterprise Value. I’m Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji and your host. We’re here to challenge how you think about tech, operations, and what’s possible in your business.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:00:38:04 – 00:00:45:03)
Let’s get into it.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:00:45:05 – 00:00:48:16)
Hey Julian, welcome back. How’ve you been? Good mate!

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:00:48:16 – 00:00:54:08)
Been good. Looking forward to this one again. So, yeah, really excited for it.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:00:54:08 – 00:01:02:22)
Today we will be discussing about customer portals that actually works, right? So when you hear a customer portal, what does comes to your mind?

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:01:03:00 – 00:01:21:23)
Interesting. It’s a big conversation, about building a custom portal that works. I guess it’s different for every business, every type of business, as to what actually needs to be included. There’s obviously some basic features that would need to be there. I wouldn’t necessarily get into that, I’d more focus on on what we actually need to achieve to, you need to achieve for your business to make it successful.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:01:21:23 – 00:01:48:00)
One of the key ones I’d be saying is, is focus on self-service, which means that how do we enable our customers to do every single thing that they need to do with us, but self-service. So that could be ordering, returning, getting delivery updates, requesting account price changes, viewing pricing, viewing stock levels, viewing lead times, configuring products, getting live… whatever it is.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:01:48:02 – 00:02:12:10)
That to me is the bedrock of of a successful customer portal. There’s obviously other things, but the number one focus, if you’re going to do it properly, is that a lot of people do these customer portals, either they implement off-the-shelf platforms or they build their own platform, and it’s just generic run-of-the-mill. You can do an order, but you’ve got a ring us still for 90% of this other stuff, and it really lacks their EdgeFactor®, you know?

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:02:12:10 – 00:02:36:07)
It’s like what we talk about, it’s been designed as a website or a portal. It does the basics in a very rigid way that’s just generic, but it lacks a clear EdgeFactor®. It’s not different in the industry. It’s not not leading the industry, I guess. And then the other point it is, is obviously the PSV Thinking® that we’ve we’ve discussed as well, but is, have you focused on increasing profit, enabling scale and building enterprise value.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:02:36:07 – 00:02:43:04)
So you could if you did that and brought that thinking down to even a screen, each different screen, right. You would design it differently.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:02:43:06 – 00:03:05:02)
So again, like I want to simply come back to this, the definition of a custom portal. Sometimes, some might relate to portals, they might relate it to something different. Right? So I want to get a small definition from you so that it makes it crystal clear that okay, when someone is referring to customer portal, they are referring to this.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:03:05:03 – 00:03:15:13)
Yeah well, a good question. I went off on a tangent a bit before so that one there, yup, no worries at all. The way I’d put that is, it’s a piece of software or a platform that enables your customers to self-service.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:03:15:13 – 00:03:17:07)
Yeah, now I get it right.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:03:17:13 – 00:03:39:00)
And that could be for a range of things or different businesses. Just to add on to that, like it can mean ordering. It could mean warranty, right? It could mean returns. It could mean product information, specs or drawing, whatever it is. But what do you, what are you providing to your customers or end users or whatever? What platform are you providing for them to be able to fully self-service?

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:03:39:00 – 00:03:54:16)
Okay, now I can visualise this. So it is something like, for me, it’s something like Bunnings. We self-checkout or in an application or web application where anyone can self-check them out, like check out as an order and then self-serve checkout, whatever process is that?

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:03:54:18 – 00:04:15:22)
Yep. That’s definitely one of them on the orders side. So Bunnings have obviously their retail website. Bunnings also have a trade website, which is basically PowerPass. They also have an app or like PowerPass, which is that, the PowerPass has the trade website and the app. And then they also have the self-checkout as well, which is yeah, they’re all different variations of it.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:04:15:22 – 00:04:20:09)
But yeah, PowerPass I guess is probably the most aligned with what we’re talking about here.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:04:20:13 – 00:04:25:17)
So for our customer portal to be very right, what would you look for in a customer portals.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:04:25:22 – 00:04:43:04)
As a customer, how much can I truly self-serve? It’s it’s that simple because so many businesses, I do believe in keeping things simple, but it’s so many businesses, for example, will say, oh yeah, you can order, but if you want to do this, this and this, you have to ring us up. Or you can check your account balance, but you can’t pay.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:04:43:04 – 00:05:09:06)
You have to ring us up or email us. Or if you want to do this yeah okay, but yeah no but you have to do this or something else. It is not genuinely easy to fully self-service. And again, if they were thinking coming back to this PSV Thinking®, not to bang on about it, but if they are thinking about increasing profitability, enabling scale and building enterprise value, they would allow customers to fully self-service because it is more efficient.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:05:09:08 – 00:05:37:21)
It decreases your cost, increases customer experience, means you can scale quicker, right? It forces you to digitise your processes. So that means they scale and improve those things, automate them, and you build, if you focus on your EdgeFactor® with what you’re packaging up, you build enterprise value. Tell me, like I guess just on that I’ll say like with the enterprise value part of it, a business that has paper processes and phone calls and emails.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:05:37:21 – 00:05:41:14)
Every business has that. So like, why are you any different? That would be the challenge.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:05:41:14 – 00:06:02:12)
I totally get it. And if a customer needs a tutorial to work around, work through a proper support team to help them around, and it’s a crappy product actually, it’s no use. You’re trying to automate things, and then you need a support team to support that product to run it. Then it’s not no good. Now I totally visualise it and make sense.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:06:02:12 – 00:06:22:19)
I agree with this. I actually have an interesting story. I spoke to Jared Spool on the Pulse podcast, but we were talking about this very specific thing in a bit of a different context, but this very specific thing about understanding what users want, understanding what customers want. He was working with a very large software company that works with Fortune 500 companies from memory, and they basically sell

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:06:22:19 – 00:06:54:19)
from what I understand, it was a data analytics platform, but they are currently spending in, from memory, it’s around 60 to 70 million on salaries for team members whose only responsibility is, to work at their clients. So every single client has, a, what they call a customer success person or something, and they work physically onsite full time for that client because the software is so bad, and this is what me and Jared were talking about and it links to exactly what you just said.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:06:54:19 – 00:07:18:19)
It’s so crap that they have to spend that amount of money. They’re clearly not thinking. GBS, and things like that there because if they did it properly, they could be saving 60 or 70 million. Put that 60 and 70 million into one year into the development of the product. Can you imagine how better of a product you would have then, instead of that, they put 60 or 70 million into these salaries and then they’re scaling.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:07:18:19 – 00:07:33:17)
Part of that is the same thing. Now go and double it. Suddenly, they’ve got 120, 140 million, more than that, in salaries. And so you have a $100 million problem every year, not just once. That could be solved if you just did this properly.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:07:33:17 – 00:07:50:13)
Its so frustrating for the customer as well. Like someone, they have to wait for someone to help them, otherwise, they won’t get it quick. No one wants to be dependent on someone to wait for them and all that happening there. The process is ridiculous. The experience would be very bad actually.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:07:50:15 – 00:08:08:09)
Agree, and I think this is where, to be honest, I think there’s a massive mindset issue with industries that we work with, especially obviously manufacturing, wholesale and kind of the industrial services, what we’re working, especially in these areas, a lot of them, are oh nah, our team are old school, our customers are old school. And, you know, we don’t need to do this.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:08:08:09 – 00:08:29:01)
Our industry doesn’t need this or anything else. It’s completely the wrong mindset. Now a lot of people use like an example like Uber, you know, disrupting the taxis. Now that is an example. Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely agree with it. But it’s is an extreme example as well and it’s like when you’re doing manufacturing, you’re not going to replace that necessarily with a man-in-the-middle kind of scenario, which is what Uber is.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:08:29:01 – 00:08:53:02)
But it is a learning lesson to say, okay, things have changed and we probably should have disrupted ourselves, right, before we were disrupted. The question, the way I put this to people is right, everyone’s expectations is growing, can you tell me, like in five years, ten years time, are people going to expect things easier, more self-service, quicker, or are they going to expect it less?

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:08:53:04 – 00:09:10:07)
And the answer always to that is, oh yeah, obviously they’re going to want it quicker, easier, you know, things are heading in that direction. So well, you’ve answered your own question. So why are you sitting here now saying that we shouldn’t be investing that, you know, we don’t need to be doing it because, you know, our industry doesn’t, doesn’t do that.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:09:10:12 – 00:09:30:10)
And then further to that, a lot of people are missing the fact that a lot of millennials, especially, but also Gen Zs now are coming into, especially with us, we work with a lot of family businesses, but still private, large private businesses, medium-sized private businesses. So much of what is coming through in leadership now is millennial or Gen Z.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:09:30:15 – 00:09:59:05)
Basically, they are all digital first natives, which is very different to having 60, 70, 80 year olds that have had to learn technology. What happens when your whole supply, your whole customer base shifts, which it is happening, to that? They will be looking for ways to do things and just in general we can say this, I’ll say this especially myself and even younger kids, for me, I feel like I grew up with tech more than a lot of people did.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:09:59:06 – 00:10:19:04)
I look at four-year-olds now fully use a phone, right? If that makes sense, quicker than their parents. It’s not going away. I take that same principle and it is getting to that level, which means that if you are just sitting around waiting, your, you will be disrupted and a practical example of this without continuing to bang on about it.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:10:19:06 – 00:10:39:12)
Let’s say as a manufacturer, you build some amazing products, right? Complex products that are typically high, more expensive, they’re premium. You do a really good job, build a really good product, but to actually design what you build, you might do, you build a certain product, but you know you need general assembly drawings, you need it drawn up. You know, I mean, that’s most of it’s custom.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:10:39:12 – 00:10:53:21)
And then it gets approved and you build it. Why can’t we automate as much of that process? It’s not about doing it badly, but why can’t we build in a platform where we can configure it, like a configurator. Where you do this, you do that and then it spits out the drawings and the client approves it. They get a price online, they pay the deposit.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:10:53:21 – 00:11:13:04)
They do all of this stuff, its like. A lot of people are like, oh, we aren’t ready for that yet. So when will you be ready? Like, be the first one to do it in the industry and do it properly and market it properly. You’ll see the returns. That’s like it’s not just about doing random stuff, but if you’re not looking to disrupt yourself, yeah, you will be disrupted.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:11:13:06 – 00:11:38:23)
I yeah, totally agree with you on all of this. Basically, with my experience in developing all these customer portals, I have seen clients come to us with a problem like a basic customer portal that doesn’t sync to their ERP, it doesn’t work properly, the customers are frustrated. There’s no real-time data sync, information data is scattered here and there, it’s just not properly planned. If they have to see, as a business.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:11:38:23 – 00:12:03:17)
Now, we discussed about the customer side thing, like creating customer experience as well. Like as a business they, I do believe that they want their data, the source of truth, to be in one place. All right. Not scattered here and there, or the order is there. And then, the inventory is somewhere else. Now, you don’t know what. Now you have to go to different applications and then plan it out.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:12:03:19 – 00:12:12:01)
So yeah, that’s my experience. I would like to know, like from you, what’s your experience like on the, any if you have on a customer portal.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:12:12:05 – 00:12:16:17)
Are you talking specifically around the data side of things, integration or just how we found it.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:12:16:22 – 00:12:33:01)
Now we discussed about the customer experience right? Around, I want to discuss about, from the business perspective as well. Give them the idea that, okay, if you have a good customer portal that not only serves your customer or your operations department, but also serves you in a better way.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:12:33:01 – 00:12:54:08)
Couldn’t agree more and fundamentally, as a business, it forces you to systemise and digitise. That’s the first thing I would say, and if you do it properly. So a lot of people listening to this as well will probably say, yeah, we did a portal, it didn’t work and everything else. They didn’t do it properly. Like that’s the point. They either, its probably not their fault, but it was either complete wrong thinking, eg. it wasn’t using PSV Thinking®, it was built terribly by, like a poor partner.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:12:54:08 – 00:13:13:11)
There was poor implementation. There was poor rollout. There’s there’s a myriad of reasons. But if we, if we, if we get the reasons, we get it right, we do it properly, then it forces you to digitise and systemise and it becomes like the central nervous system, like the hub of the business. I believe it should become your EdgeFactor®, which is what we talk about.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:13:13:11 – 00:13:34:00)
But it’s a number one reason people do business with you. It’s, you’re digital first. If you become well, you do a portal or something like this year, or try and release something like this technology and you aren’t digital first, like it will always be that thing just over there that we do sometimes. It will never work. It will never work, right?

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:13:34:00 – 00:13:52:12)
You have to commit to it, invest in it, improve it, iterate on it. That’s how it becomes. You get the returns out of it and there’s so much around the systems, you talked about a central source of truth. Couldn’t agree more, right? You’re, how, how can we leverage this data and all of this here for our team? Right.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:13:52:12 – 00:14:11:10)
Right, so we say okay great, we’ve show this to all the customers or our team want to have this as well. So yeah we’ll give the team access. Oh okay. So we’ve even given customers all of this self-service access, they can do their own quotes. But some people still want, you know, the team to do a quote. Okay. So how do we just leverage the technology we’ve already built for customers and let the team do the quote?

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:14:11:12 – 00:14:33:14)
And it generates an amazing-looking quote in ten seconds, rather than taking two hours. Again, it’s just it’s the thought process. How do we leverage all of this to our advantage? Right. And if we think the right way, again, focus on increasing profit, enabling scale, building enterprise value. If you focus on the biggest problems or the biggest opportunities, then we solve them.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:14:33:14 – 00:14:35:07)
You can’t go wrong.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:14:35:09 – 00:14:58:06)
I’ve seen this happening a lot of time. A lot of the clients we have, has always come to us with these problems actually. The problem is syncing data, the problem with, they, they have their ERP system implemented. I’ve seen this, but, the ERP system is not, hasn’t been implemented properly, so that the data is scattered here and there.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:14:58:06 – 00:15:17:20)
This is one of the problems I see all the time with our clients. And this is what we have been doing for like now, like more than like 5 years, more than I guess syncing data here and then. But yeah. What’s your experience like? What’s with the playing around with the data, what how it should be handled and all that?

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:15:17:20 – 00:15:18:22)
What’s the experience like there?

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:15:19:00 – 00:15:34:13)
It’s an interesting one, I guess. I totally agree with you. Most people’s ERPs are an absolute mess, and I think that’s a combination of things. I don’t think it’s just through, we talked about this I think earlier on, in one of the other earlier episodes as well, I can’t remember exactly. But is like, a lot of people, we were talking about legacy systems.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:15:34:13 – 00:15:50:19)
That’s what it was. But a lot of people get something set up and then someone that’s not really competent and doesn’t have the skills just gets handballed it, and said, oh, you need to take this on, kind of thing. And then they don’t have the skills, they just do the best, they do the best they can. It’s not really their fault.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:15:51:00 – 00:16:20:13)
That’s where we kind of end up in this scenario. And I don’t think people truly understand, this isn’t just non-technical people business. I mean, people don’t understand the power of structured data. Truly, I genuinely think a lot of developers, designers don’t understand this, when it comes to database design and how things interact, how things are structured, how things are simplistically tagged, and all that kind of thing, is incredibly important.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:16:20:15 – 00:16:40:04)
It can be the difference, I was having a conversation with a potential client about this the other day but, people will talk about AI, I do think the businesses that will win in the long term will have incredibly well systemised and digitised businesses and have incredibly well-structured data underneath that. That is who’s going to win, because we’re proving it with all of our prototypes and experiments.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:16:40:05 – 00:17:15:01)
And I know for myself, in the business, it is enabling us to do things that we could never have done in the time that we’re doing them. I’m not talking about generic crap. A lot of people just like put this is, oh yeah, we can generate 15,000 blog posts. That’s not what we’re talking about here, right? We’re talking about real, actionable tasks, insights in the business, growth of the business, business coaching, all of this stuff that we can do, with what we’re working with intujiOS, obviously. I don’t think people realise the power of data, and that’s where obviously, most businesses’s data lives in an ERP.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:17:15:02 – 00:17:34:16)
That’s why I’m getting to this. Is that yeah, I don’t have the, it’s no, there’s no magic bullet. You need someone that understands it and can do it properly and I think you should have a central source of truth regarding a database and typically for most businesses, that would be the ERP. A lot of the work that we do is layering on top of the ERP and other systems.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:17:34:16 – 00:18:08:05)
So we may be creating a central repository, essentially, but we still try and, in most cases, this isn’t every case, we still try and keep the ERP as the source of truth, right. There should be a source of truth. But yeah, a lot of what I feel is missed out on is, is this structured data and these databases and things like that there, is because if you don’t own the narrative, without being cliche, like if you don’t own the data, the structure and actually control that as a business, yes, you may get benefits out of co-pilot, ChatGPT, even other products, eventually I see Net suite will eventually be bringing AI.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:18:08:07 – 00:18:24:08)
I haven’t done too much research around what they are doing, but no doubt it will be coming. In regards to what you have, just let’s look at it generically. You can ask anything that’s in your NetSuite instance, that will happen if it’s not already in the works, it will happen. My point is like that’s great. They’ve got your data structure and everything else in there.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:18:24:08 – 00:18:37:18)
What are you doing to create your own, like what we’re doing with intujiOS, if that makes sense. It is going to genuinely take us to the next level of what we can achieve and how quickly we can achieve it, will be the point.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:18:37:19 – 00:19:01:14)
Exactly. I totally, I’m, I couldn’t agree more than this to you on that. If the data is not properly structured, its of no use. You have to, if you have to use it, you have to clean it again properly and then like, do a proper process of it, and then manage it. It’s extra work, which you be, all you have to do it later on.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:19:01:14 – 00:19:06:12)
And then, it could even be a trash. You could even never be able to use it as well.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:19:06:12 – 00:19:20:20)
So we’ve got a project right now with exactly that, that we’re looking at a migration. You talk a bit about that. Well, obviously looking at a potential migration for the project we’re working on and it’s what, 20 years plus of data.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:19:20:20 – 00:19:44:12)
Yeah. Now, now, now that problem is such a big problem that is like it’s you have to go through all the data, validate it and then clean it up. It’s a big process now. It’s a huge data. While you are collecting the data, try to make, this, his is what you got to plan I guess. You, when you, you’re using a application or a customer portal, you will be always be collecting your data.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:19:44:18 – 00:20:01:23)
If you are not collecting properly, it it’s it’s a trash. It could be end up being a trash. You should be, that’s one of the assets. Your application is an asset, more than the application the data is very valuable asset, so.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:20:02:00 – 00:20:32:08)
I agree, I agree, 100% agree, the data is the asset almost. That’s the point. How you’ve structured the data and how you capture it is the asset. And I would, I’d totally agree with you. But I, I’m of the opinion that you’ve got to get as much, yes as refactoring and improving over time but for regarding a data structure that is the most, you can refactor features front end, you can you change the UI, things like that there, but if fundamentally your data structure is flawed from the beginning.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:20:32:10 – 00:21:03:15)
That is a lot of work to change. I honestly, hands down, this isn’t just, you know, I’m not just talking about our team or anyone, I’m just saying, generally, developers and designers and things like that there do not understand, even just people that work on these projects, I believe, they do not put enough importance on getting it set up right, understanding why it’s been set up that way, and thinking 15 steps ahead of what potentially could be coming in and making sure, again, we talk about engineered to scale, right?

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:21:03:15 – 00:21:26:17)
Scalable systems is like thinking that way where it’s like, okay, I’m not just thinking, oh, I can scale the database. I’m thinking I can scale the structure of the data with this, right? Like that, that’s the point. And I couldn’t agree more, we need to be more focused on that. We need to think like that. And especially to any CEOs, business leaders or whatever listening that is thinking about a portal, a warranty portal, an operations platform.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:21:26:17 – 00:21:34:13)
I don’t care what it is, whether it’s internal or external, the success will start and end with how you structure the data.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:21:34:15 – 00:22:05:08)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah as a developer for the years long and until then, the thought process wasn’t there actually. They, for the developers, the it’s just a task, it’s just a feature. These data needs to go from this form, this needs to go there. That’s just the task, they don’t visualize it properly. They don’t have a idea of PSV Thinking®, how it’s scalable, how it’s valuable kind of thing. For a couple of years, until there’s no much of data, not much of a data.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:22:05:08 – 00:22:17:13)
Then it works fine. It will. You won’t be having any problem as well. But when the data grows huge, you see the problems, and then when you want to scale as well, if it’s not properly designed, the scalability is like an issue.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:22:17:13 – 00:22:38:03)
The only thing like I just bought to mind then, we have this from our very first MVP of IntujiOSs, right? Okay. We knew this was probably going to happen, that, we just wanted to prove the concept of what we were doing, which we’ve done. We achieved our objective, but the data that we got in there now, it’s not terrible, but like it’s nowhere near to the level of where we’re going and what we want it to be.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:22:38:03 – 00:22:55:10)
Right. And it makes it infinitely more difficult to get insights out of that. Yes, there are ways around it. Yes, we can do this and that and everything else, but it’s not easy and it’s not scalable. It’s it’s not like a, a future where we can go, oh yeah, okay. I can see how that can grow as we add more data.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:22:55:10 – 00:23:04:04)
And important, I feel for, for us to share these, you know, these learnings to people listening because it’s, it’s a, it’s all a continuous improvement process I guess.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:23:04:04 – 00:23:27:07)
It’s not only about the business process, technology-wise as well, if the data is huge, if it’s not planned properly, it’s not structured properly, it’s very tough to scale. I’ve been seeing one of the integrations we did, a couple of months ago, they were, we had to get a lot of data from our, their data vendors and then sync it to one source.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:23:27:09 – 00:23:50:21)
And then it was, initially it wasn’t planned properly. The overall sync took like hours, syncing the data is so challenging. Very specific, very granular data were there, regarding the price and very sensitive data as well, very sensitive data. But like before, it wasn’t like planned properly, that it was the biggest problem, that the syncing process could take the server down.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:23:51:03 – 00:24:04:12)
It could use such a heavy resource. It’s proper now, the syncing, which we, I’m really happy that we, from hours of sync, we got it to five minutes, four minutes, three minutes kind of thing.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:24:04:12 – 00:24:23:00)
Yeah, and just for context, I guess that was the challenges they were having previously with the integration as well, right? If that makes sense. It was the same thing that we’ve got down now to what, two minutes? Three minutes was taking three, two, three hours for, for some for some people. And yeah, that’s the point. If it’s built wrong, if we haven’t thought it through, we haven’t planned it right.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:24:23:00 – 00:24:45:17)
The only reason we can achieve those, those numbers is because we planned it properly, we thought it through, we made sure that it was actually aligned with the business processes. Yes, there was improvements we made along the way, on and on our own learnings, but the overall structure and the approach that we took was fundamentally correct. Previously, it was fundamentally flawed with the previous partner implementation that they did.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:24:45:17 – 00:25:05:14)
And again, once you’ve, you know, this more than anyone, but I guess this just come into my head, how we start with a lot of things can, especially the data structure and just, I guess, not just data, it’s also overall architecture decisions, the architecture of the actual tech and the architecture of the data. If that is fundamentally flawed, it is almost impossible to change that when you’re a long way in, isn’t it?

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:25:05:17 – 00:25:07:13)
It’s essentially it’s a replatforming.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:25:07:13 – 00:25:15:12)
Yeah, it will cost you more at the end of the day, if the, more, you have to do reworks and all that kind of thing, it will cost you more, obviously.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:25:15:14 – 00:25:38:23)
Yeah, but 100%. But I think people don’t understand that. And I want you to explain a bit more about it because they somewhat just think it’s like, oh yeah, yeah, just change that. Like just, you know, just add that thing in, just change that, it’s like well, it doesn’t work like that, right? It’s not that easy. It’s like saying, hey, I’ve built this massive mansion, and all the foundations are all wrong and the walls are in the wrong spot and everything, but I just want you to just change that.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:25:38:23 – 00:25:42:14)
It’s like well, I can’t, actually, I can’t just move that kind of thing.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:25:42:14 – 00:26:05:11)
Yeah. You give a perfect example as a mansion, like you have already built a mansion. Now you want to shift a pillar, a big pillar, like, how can you shift a pillar? you don’t, you didn’t like the design of the pillar or whatever happened. Now, if shifting a pillar will break the whole mansion, you can be very, very, delicate about doing that and doing it precisely.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:26:05:11 – 00:26:12:22)
But until and unless you don’t do it properly, what happens? You don’t know the, what impact are going, it is going to hit.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:26:13:02 – 00:26:36:07)
Where are the underlining issues? Yeah cracks start coming here, there and everywhere. You don’t you don’t realise that and then couldn’t agree more insight. People are oh yeah but I need it done. And it’s like yeah, but you do realize how much it’s going to cost, right? We are fundamentally changing the product. This is flawed, but then the other challenge we have, and this is just in I guess, our industry, but is the distrust levels of like, because people don’t understand what we do.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:26:36:09 – 00:26:59:00)
It’s somewhat like building, but I think building people, with building and construction, you can see, I can physically touch it, feel it, see it. Right. I know I can see it. With what we’re doing we’re doing construction with more challenges, more variables, and you can’t see it. A leader, a CEO, CTO, whoever it is, whatever obviously the CTO would probably have more idea.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:26:59:00 – 00:27:18:18)
But you know what I mean, as a leader of the business, whoever’s reviewing it, most of them have like, oh, I don’t understand what that is, especially in the in the kind of industries that we work within, such a high level of trust because we say to them, Bro, this is flawed. And they’re like, why? And that’s on us. To then demonstrate simply and easy to understand and say, this is where it’s at.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:27:18:18 – 00:27:20:22)
This is why it’s wrong, and this is what we need to do.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:27:21:00 – 00:27:42:14)
Exactly. While you’re explaining, a lot of real life examples came to my head, clients, clients like, look at it like this. Like they want just want to, take it as a, it’s just a simple, like changing a colour of a button or something, like that. They take it that easily. When we are doing it’s not just is, the changing a colour is a thing.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:27:42:14 – 00:28:06:23)
It’s just a brief example for you guys, but like it’s when you ask adding a lot of data and adding and manipulating data whenever you do that, its, we need to think about how it’s going to impact, how it’s going to, like, when you edit it what’s going to happen, is it only that, in a sales order like one, one of the recent example was in a sales order.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:28:06:23 – 00:28:17:16)
They wanted to add something in the product items and all that kind of, some details on it. They didn’t see that user can edit it, who else can edit it, whats the. Things like that there, each and every thing needs to be changed.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:28:17:17 – 00:28:37:15)
It’s just, it’s a cascading effect. And people don’t think about that. That cascading effect and the regression testing and this is the point and this is a somewhat frustrating thing. But why it’s, it’s on us to explain it and to think ahead. But that’s half the point is basically saying to, to clients is looking at it saying well, this is why, you know.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:28:37:15 – 00:28:57:18)
For example, we’ve even been, you get questioned, why have hours gone up? Right like this is one of, why have the estimated hours gone up? Well we’ve got an explanation for it. Theret’s not, it’s not about not questioning hours. Right. Because that’s in every client’s right to be able to do that. It’s more about the understanding of it to say, well, yeah, this there’s a reason why, if that make sense, and this is why, right?

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:28:57:18 – 00:29:19:10)
And we’ve thought probably, five, ten steps ahead of you because we’re experienced with doing this kind of work. We don’t expect you to be thinking that far ahead. But at the same time, people aren’t thinking, they just think that, yeah, let’s change that and then it doesn’t like, it could impact twenty other things, right? And then if we don’t do this, and we know this through experience, there is times we’ve learnt, well, we haven’t done this, right.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:29:19:12 – 00:29:34:16)
They’ll say, why didn’t you think of that, or why didn’t you do that? But then previously we were like, they were like, oh, we can’t afford to spend any more time on it, right? And it’s like, what do you want? We either spend more time on it, we do it properly, or we can cut corners and you’ll figure out the issues later.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:29:34:16 – 00:29:55:15)
People don’t really like, I guess, being that blunt, but that’s the facts of it. I come back to what I said, I think in one of the first episodes, but was, people underestimate the level of investment and commitment and mental effort and everything it is to create a true EdgeFactor®. To create a really solid platform, you know, there’s a lot of effort and investment required.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:29:55:17 – 00:30:16:06)
They also massively, even more underestimate the potential, so, if you do it properly. So they massively underestimate the cost and time and effort to act, that needed to go into it to do it properly. At the same time, they massively underestimate the potential it has, if it’s done properly. Why? Because they focus on the wrong things, e.g. they should be thinking about PSV Thinking®.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:30:16:06 – 00:30:24:02)
That is where the, the million, massive, multi-million, tens of million, hundred million dollar opportunities come, if we do that and do it properly.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:30:24:02 – 00:30:49:01)
One of the experience I have, seeing the clients portal, customer portals and all that, people have for ages been using bought templates from somewhere. They use, it’s not built for them, whatever they is, they just use it and try to make it, work around with that template, rather than building it for yourself. It doesn’t make sense for me now as we are.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:30:49:03 – 00:31:10:08)
If you’re trying to build your EdgeFactor®, then build it for yourself. Build it for your customer, the specific needs, how they want it, how,  where they want the button to be. They just don’t use the templates and then, you will get it there but the, the frustration, the understanding, the learning curve, the using the template is ridiculous.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:31:10:08 – 00:31:12:15)
You might want. yeah

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:31:12:16 – 00:31:29:03)
I agree. I think another part to this is using off-the-shelf platforms. So obviously the, the the bulk of this kind of episode is about customer portals and a key gripe I have is off-the-shelf, what I call off the shelf platforms, are ready-to-go customer portals, kind of customer portals as a service, whatever you want to call it, essentially.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:31:29:03 – 00:31:45:20)
Oh we’ve already got a pre-built portal, you just need to set up your branding and we can do some adjustments and everything else. They have a place. Firstly, I want to say that, but they have a place if you don’t want to build your EdgeFactor®, you just want a generic what everyone else has and what you know you want to do, what everyone else has access to.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:31:45:20 – 00:32:02:14)
And I’ll put it in a very simplistic way, I know, business isn’t this simple, but it explains, you get the idea. You’ve got two competitors, the exact same, so, everything’s exactly the same. One of them implements this off-the-shelf customer portal. The other one, they do all of this cool, amazing. This. Oh, we should do that, they implement it.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:32:02:14 – 00:32:24:19)
Immediately they have the same thing. Immediately, they have the exact same thing. Okay, this guy gets a new feature. Oh, released on this one. This one, this one. It i’s absolutely no different. You are, you are doing the exact same thing as everyone else. Everyone else has exactly what you have, be able to. And then further than that, which is even worse.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:32:24:21 – 00:32:44:03)
None of that is your intellectual property. None of that is your own asset. Yes, you can argue regarding enterprise value, that you’ve implemented this off-the-shelf system and it helped you be more productive. Yeah, okay. I agree with that. It will somewhat influence EBITDA, it will somewhat increase your EV. Nowhere near as much, as if you build your EdgeFactor®

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:32:44:03 – 00:33:06:08)
As in something like intujiOS and build your own platform with your own technology that is designed exactly for how your business runs. It’s designed for what makes you unique. It’s designed to systematise all the good parts about your business and help you scale. And it’s branded, it’s packaged, it’s yours. Your competitors cannot copy it, right? It is yours.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:33:06:08 – 00:33:17:03)
It’s your asset. There’s a humongous difference, that’s the same idea is what you’re saying with these templates, whatever it is. Do what everyone else is doing, get the same results that everyone else gets. It’s literally that simple.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:33:17:08 – 00:33:38:09)
I was imagining a, you’re, you’re, you’re wearing a, someone else’s tuxedo or a suit, a proper suit. If it’s built and tailored for you, it fits you well, you feel confident, and you walk very confidently, right? If you are wearing someone’s clothes, then it won’t fit you properly. It’s the, it’s hanging.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:33:38:09 – 00:33:40:04)
There’s always something a bit wrong.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:33:40:04 – 00:33:40:13)
Yeah. yeah.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:33:40:14 – 00:33:41:01)
Doesn’t feel right.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:33:41:01 – 00:33:59:01)
Yeah, yeah. Like, instead this is the same thing with the software as well. Like the application is, if it’s tailored for you and your customer, your business specifically, and it will be, you’ll feel great walking around, you will be, feel very confident. It’s like it’s the same experience I see.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:33:59:03 – 00:34:15:05)
Yeah. I would add to, I agree, it’s a good, good idea, but I would add to it and probably put even a bit of a different angle on that there. It’s like, it’s like going and buying an off-the-shelf suit that doesn’t fit you versus a tailor making one for you that fits you, but also is something that you could never buy.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:34:15:06 – 00:34:34:12)
That’s the point, right? It’s exactly, not necessarily how you want it, because this whole process is about improving processes and everything else as well. It’s not just about doing it exactly as you want it. We’ve got to think differently, but imagine it like a suit you couldn’t buy anywhere else, is one of the most amazing suits in the world in that particular thing, and it is very unique.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:34:34:12 – 00:34:56:01)
It’s that idea of like, we are doing something no one else has done. We are doing something that someone else cannot get some, anywhere else. Right. The only way they get this is by dealing with us. Imagine the EdgeFactor® as the experience people get when they deal with your business. But the EdgeFactor® is the package of like the technology, the platforms, everything like that there, that enables you to give that experience.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:34:56:03 – 00:35:12:10)
A simple example is like, people often say, we have amazing customer service or we answer, we get quotes back within half an hour. My question is, why do you even need to get quotes back within half an hour? Seriously, why can’t clients do that? Now, don’t get me wrong, there’s still going to be people that want to get quotes from you and everything else.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:35:12:10 – 00:35:27:02)
You should still stick to that. But why are you not thinking like, how do we get ahead and just mean that they don’t have to contact us every time? Or, okay, let’s build out the portal with our data structured properly and build AI on top of it, and let them just ask for a quote and it will give it to them instantly.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:35:27:03 – 00:35:53:05)
Now a lot of people say, oh yeah, all the AI chat bots are crap and everything else. Yes, if you do it wrong and 99% of people are doing it wrong, that’s just a fact. But if you have the data structured properly, you do it right, you can do these things right and suddenly you go from someone has to email us to get a quote and respond back, to literally, they can ask AI or go into our portal and not only do they get that access, they get everything else.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:35:53:05 – 00:36:07:16)
They get this data, they get loyalty or whatever it is, but there’s a reason for it. It’s got to be a win, a win-win. But to sum it up, not to keep banging on about it, is a lot of people, in essence what I’m saying is a lot of people make excuses, saying our customers don’t want that. They would prefer to do this, but the reason they prefer to do that, is guess what?

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:36:07:16 – 00:36:23:23)
Because it’s easier than doing your other alternative. People take the path of least resistance, and if you genuinely show them, that this is easier, and it may take even a few more steps, but at the end of the day, you get, it’s easier for you in regards to the data you get out of it, the tracking, whatever it might be.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:36:23:23 – 00:36:51:01)
But it’s a win for you, and they understand that and it’s genuinely true. They will do that. It’s really that simple. If they’re not doing it, probably look at what you’ve built, or how you, how you’re onboarding them, how your whole mindset is as a business. Because on, with how, I’m banging on too much, but again, another point about this with portals and things like that there, I’ve seen businesses release brilliant portals, and they die, because there’s no implementation plan, strategy plan of working with clients.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:36:51:06 – 00:37:08:14)
The mindset of digital first, portal first is not there. So salespeople going out on the road and what they are doing is, all the old school stuff, still doing the same thing, not mentioning the portal, nothing. The first thing they should be doing is saying, not have you heard, here’s a flyer. Let me set you up. Let me train you.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:37:08:14 – 00:37:26:09)
Let me. Your. Their job should be to sell the portal. All right? Not sell the product you’re selling. They should be selling the solution. They should sell the portal. And then businesses release this amazing, like at least they’ve got the foundation of this amazing idea there. And then they’ll go, it doesn’t work. So what are you doing?

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:37:26:09 – 00:37:40:07)
It’s not going to sell itself. You have to be digital first and genuinely put it at the top of your strategy. And it is your EdgeFactor®. And if it is your EdgeFactor®, you will treat it like that and it’ll be the number one thing you talk about, and it’ll be the number one thing you sell.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:37:40:09 – 00:38:11:15)
Exactly. Some times, some clients has thought it properly, but they wanted to overdo it, overbuild it as well. That’s one of the problem as well I have seen the while dealing with the clients. They want everything in their mind and then they end up having, trying to implement everything at once, without experimenting with their user. That is also one of the things that has, made the customer portals, has ruined the process of the customer portal actually, the value of the customer portal.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:38:11:15 – 00:38:17:16)
So, do you, do you have an experience around it? Have you seen anything like that if you love to share it?

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:38:17:18 – 00:38:37:11)
Yeah, I agree, it’s a fantastic point that you raise. It’s, there’s a balance. I’m a big believer in looking long-term in the vision, setting the vision for where we’re getting to. But I absolutely agree with you on a feature-by-feature basis and how things work, there has to be flexibility because as Maarten Dalmijn said on the Pulse, you know, episode as well where I spoke to him, we, we don’t know what we don’t know.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:38:37:11 – 00:38:53:16)
And when we start the project, we actually know the least about it, at that point in time, and we’re trying to do them the most planning. Now, this affects a few things, one of them being budget and timeline, with the work that we do, that is difficult to explain with clients because we’re trying to plan with the least amount of knowledge.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:38:53:16 – 00:39:11:18)
We’re trying to plan the most extensively, but just focusing on this whole point about trying to do too many features at once, I totally agree with you. We’re talking about, and we’ve talked about doing all this self-service, all this, everything else. Absolutely agree with you, but you can’t do that all at once. It’s like trying to build a mansion or the Colosseum or whatever.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:39:11:18 – 00:39:34:01)
I’m just saying like a building just in one big lump and go, if that makes sense? Essentially, it’s built line upon line. It’s built layer upon layer. It’s like we, we do build this, but we’ve got, the vision is always there of what we’re trying to do, the mindsets there, we just need to work out the blocks we have to put in place and adjust those as we go. And couldn’t agree more.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:39:34:01 – 00:39:51:04)
There are a lot of businesses that fail because you try and do everything at once and you end up doing nothing properly. Like, yeah, everything fails, rather than just focusing on a core set of features to begin with, and then continuing development. And that’s another thing that I think, again, if you’re going to focus on your EdgeFactor®, it’s truly the EdgeFactor® for the business.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:39:51:06 – 00:40:11:21)
It never stops. Like when you release the portal is day zero. Like you do not, that’s not, oh thanks, oh we’re done, like great. It’s, we have just literally started the project. So we’ve just launched, but now it’s like continuous development from that point forward. Why? Because if you do it properly and you invest in it properly, you will get more returns.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:40:11:23 – 00:40:15:10)
You should be getting more returns out of it than you’d ever spend on it.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:40:15:14 – 00:40:38:21)
Exactly. Thank you for clearing that out. I think we can talk for ages on this. I know that but its time that we wrap up. Thanks for the time. And then lastly, I do want, you to summarise it properly, at least two or three points when someone is trying to build a custom portal, what they need to focus on and things like that there.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:40:38:23 – 00:40:43:05)
So that is clear and it’s summarised.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:40:43:06 – 00:41:04:19)
Yep. So the first thing I would say, is you need to be focused on how do you, if you’re focusing specifically on customers, how do you allow them to self-service as much as possible? Not in a generic way. Flip things on its head. Ask, can we do this differently? The industry may not have never done it, but how can you change the narrative and allow customers to do self-service at a level never seen in your industry?

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:41:04:19 – 00:41:22:18)
That’s that’s the first thing I say. You then have to focus on three key pillars, which is increasing profitability, enabling scale and building enterprise value. That’s the PSV Thinking®. And keep in mind that at, the whole time you’re trying to build your EdgeFactor®, which is, how do we turn this into something that is the first thing that we sell?

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:41:22:18 – 00:41:44:06)
It is our business. It is the number one thing in our business that we are using, to operate, to sell, it’s a main USP, all of that kind of stuff. If you get those pillars right, then essentially you’ll know that fundamentally the business case will be there. If it’s not there, don’t bother doing it. But if it’s there, the opportunities there, you should do it.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:41:44:08 – 00:41:51:00)
And then the final thing is, as we’ve already said, break it up into phases, but never forget the vision. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:41:51:02 – 00:41:54:04)
Thanks Julian. That was great, actually. Thank you so much.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:41:54:06 – 00:41:56:13)
No worries. Good chat.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:41:56:15 – 00:42:32:08)
Good chat. All right. See you next week, Julian, thanks mate. Thanks, mate. That’s a wrap on this episode of The Disruptors. If you’re serious about unlocking your EdgeFactor®, the thing that sets your business apart and helps it grow sustainably, don’t forget to follow, share, and leave a quick review. We’ll be back next week with more real-world insights and no-fluff conversations on how to rethink your systems, modernise operations and build value that lasts. Until then — stay sharp, stay focused, and keep disrupting.