Why Legacy Systems Break Businesses (And What to Do About It) | The Disruptors #2

Show: The Disruptors Episode: 02

Publish Date: 02 June 2025

Legacy systems aren’t just outdated — they’re operational handbrakes.

In Episode 2 of The Disruptors, Ritesh Shah and Julian Wallis unpack the hidden cost of clinging to legacy systems. From internal custom-built platforms to bloated off-the-shelf ERPs, they explain why duct-taped fixes create long-term liabilities — and how leaders can escape the cycle.

They cover everything from sunk cost bias and tech debt to poor architecture and misused tools. You’ll also learn how to prioritise the right problems, avoid vendor-driven decisions, and architect your systems for long-term scalability using API-first thinking.

Whether you’re planning a rebuild, dealing with fragmented operations, or trying to protect future enterprise value, this episode will help you reset your thinking.

Timestamps

00:00:00 – Welcome to The Disruptors
Ritesh and Julian introduce the show and what listeners can expect from the series.

00:01:40 – PSV Thinking® Explained
Why every transformation must focus on Profit, Scale, and Enterprise Value — or it’s doomed to fail.

00:02:44 – What Digital Transformation Isn’t
A reality check on why most businesses confuse “building tech” with “creating outcomes.”

00:06:52 – Hard Lessons Behind the Framework
How Intuji’s early missteps helped refine their transformation approach.

00:10:00 – When AI is Just Hype
Why bad data and poor planning ruin most AI projects before they start.

00:11:41 – Portals Done Right (and Wrong)
What makes a customer portal scalable, useful, and worth the investment?

00:13:07 – Assumption-Led Projects
How skipping research leads to wasted time, money, and morale.

00:16:49 – Why “More Sales” Isn’t a Strategy
Specificity creates traction — vague goals create chaos.

00:21:46 – The EdgeFactor®
Why your tech experience should be impossible to copy — and your #1 advantage.

00:23:12 – Spotting the Wrong Clients
How Intuji disqualifies businesses that are not ready for fundamental transformation.

00:40:18 – The Threat of Smarter Competitors
A thought experiment to expose how exposed your business really is.

Key Takeaways from this Episode

• Why most transformation projects fail before they begin
• How PSV Thinking® ensures every initiative is ROI-focused
• What makes a portal scalable vs. pointless
• The hidden cost of assumptions and vague strategy
• How to create real competitive advantage through digital

Transcript

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:00:00:00 – 00:00:39:00)
Welcome to The Disruptors. The show for manufacturers, wholesalers, and industrial businesses building their EdgeFactor® through digital transformation that actually delivers. Every week, we unpack real stories, strategies, and lessons using PSV Thinking®, a practical framework focused on one thing: driving Profits, enabling Scale, and building long-term Enterprise Value. I’m Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji and your host — we’re here to challenge how you think about tech, operations, and what’s possible in your business. Let’s get into it

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:00:39:020 – 00:00:47:140)
Welcome to the Disruptors. This is the first episode of the Disruptors and with me, I have Julian Wallis. Welcome to the show, Julian. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:00:47:160 – 00:00:59:170)
Awesome mate. I’m excited about this. And everything that we’ve got in store for it, there’s going to be, I think some amazing discussions. And yeah, excited to go back and forth with you and thrash out some ideas. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:00:59:180 – 00:01:22:090)
This is our first Podcast and then we are into digital transformation for a long time now, so let’s kick things off with digital transformation, how it works and what it is and all that. I wanted to understand, since you are in the digital transformation space for almost a decade now, or more than a decade now, I want to understand what digital transformation is for you, and what it isn’t. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:01:22:110 – 00:01:46:090)
Good question. It’s hard, I guess that’s hard to answer, meaning like, It’s a good question, a very good question but it’s just… Digital transformation for me, I guess,is the using of technology to help you create a competitive advantage, help you increase profitability, enable scale and build enterprise value. Right. We obviously internally, we, we call that PSV Thinking®, so profit scale value thinking. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:01:46:110 – 00:02:10:210)
But it is outcome-driven digital transformation that helps you build, another thing that we use internally, but is your EdgeFactor® right? You know, we’ve had those discussions in the last couple of weeks which has been really good and really helpful. But it is how do you use that technology to your advantage to build your EdgeFactor®, which is essentially a competitive advantage across your X factor, which enables you to do things that other businesses can’t do. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:02:10:230 – 00:02:38:230)
And at the same time, you’re focusing on increasing profitability, enabling scale, and building enterprise value. What most people do with digital transformation or what they think, so they may think about, you know, there’s multiple examples here. It might be like implementing an ERP, developing a customer portal, a warranty portal, building a mobile application, whatever it is. And this is where I argue what digital transformation isn’t. Is that people like go into or we need to build an app, right? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:02:38:230 – 00:03:00:110)
We need to build an on-site app, we need to build, we need to implement new ERP or whatever and they are doing it, for lack of a better way to say that, doing it for the sake of doing it. And what I mean by that there is, there is no strategic objectives. It’s not outcome-driven digital transformation. It’s just they had an idea, they saw a new feature, or they… you know, just jumped the gun and were like, yeah, this is what we’re going to do. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:03:00:120 – 00:03:28:110)
And you know, I guess, ill informed to a degree and then they spend hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars, tens of millions, even in cases. And then some of the biggest corporates, such as DHL, have spent hundreds of millions doing this, only to figure out that it’s not actually what they needed to do. And if they had of focused on those three key pillars e.g. increasing profitability, enabling scale and building enterprise value, and then working out how can we use tech to, to pull those levers. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:03:28:130 – 00:03:31:070)
That, to me, is what real digital transformation is. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:03:31:100 – 00:03:56:200)
I think we need to zoom in more into PSV Thinking®, people need to understand what it is. And then yeah, I totally agree. People, I also think that people are using or building or doing these transformations for and I call it tech for the sake of tech. Actually, if it’s not PSV Thinking® there’s no profit, there’s no scale or there’s no brand value, then it’s not… 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:03:56:200 – 00:03:58:220)
Tech is just a tool. I guess. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:03:58:220 – 00:04:21:110)
It’s not worth doing right. Like at that point, I guess. And if it’s not and this is where unless you’re nonprofit or something. But it’s again, I would say the principles still apply. Like you can change your increased profit for increased efficiency if that’s the way you want to put it. Right. Okay. Obviously brand value doesn’t apply, but our focus is manufacturers, wholesalers and industrial businesses, and that’s who we’re speaking to. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:04:21:120 – 00:04:39:180)
And at the end of the day, if it’s not increasing profit and or enabling scale or building enterprise value or all three ideally, which is an amazing trifecta. But if it’s not influencing one of those, then it’s not going to work. Like that’s just a fact, I feel. Yeah, as you said, tech for the sake of tech. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:04:39:200 – 00:05:04:060)
And what frustrates me about it, in, just my experience, is the fact that, I guess there’s some merit to this. Whatever. It’s a it’s a much more complex discussion than, how quickly I’m going to boil it down, I guess. But it’s more the fact of we get blamed or it’s companies like us or vendors or whatever get blamed, when in fact, like you can’t just lump the blame on, I guess, one specific company or individual. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:05:04:060 – 00:05:27:150)
Now, if you’ve got a project that’s gone terribly wrong, well, that’s another story. But I guess what I’m trying to say is the responsibility is on the businesses to be focusing on the right things and thinking this way, because if you go to someone and say, we want to implement a new ERP, well yes, okay, if you’re working with the right partner and the right vendor, they should be working with you to to work out what’s best for your business. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:05:27:150 – 00:05:36:210)
But I guess it’s the onus lies on everyone that’s working on this, but mainly on the business themselves to say, well, what are we? Where can we focus to to get the biggest return? 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:05:36:230 – 00:05:52:080)
Basically, it took us almost a decade to get here. Right? And then what was the light bulb moment or any experience that made you think that PSV Thinking® is the thing? Is the missing point or the missing link? What was the light bulb moment? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:05:52:120 – 00:06:10:110)
Very good question. You are throwing out these at me very hard. I guess the I wouldn’t necessarily say that there was there’s been a light bulb moment. Probably was I don’t know, I, it’s been a compounding a building over time of like, the focus from the beginning even when we, I mean, you remember the website blueprints, right? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:06:10:110 – 00:06:31:030)
Like even the, the idea behind that it was the little bit of a seed right of PSV Thinking®. It was like we’ve always had the principles and things of like, we have to do things properly, we need to plan things out. We need to understand, we need to focus on the right areas. But I guess over time, as we’ve learnt, one thing we’ve learned, and I’ve learned especially, is that I guess tech for the sake of tech, is a waste of time. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:06:31:030 – 00:06:48:220)
And, you know, even with those in those days, we weren’t focusing on the like, we had the right ideas, the right principles, I guess was the way to put it. But essentially, we were more looking at just tech for the sake of tech. Whereas over time we’ve learnt the biggest return that we can get is focusing on the right levers, I guess is the point. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:06:48:220 – 00:07:05:110)
And it came together. It’s come together, really with this PSV Thinking® the last kind of 12, 18 months is what what I would say are really where we’ve started to hone it in and really get it clear. But I guess the focus was we’re doing some reflection as a team, and it was just like, how do we boil this down as simply as we possibly can? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:07:05:110 – 00:07:22:190)
So anyone can understand it. Not only is it communicated to clients, but obviously for us internally, as you’re aware, it’s like, what are we doing as a as a company, as a partner for clients and teams and as a team member working here at Intuji, like, how do I bring value to the projects and things that I’m working on? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:07:22:190 – 00:07:42:100)
And if you’re focusing on those three key areas, that’s what it is. And so I guess to answer it in summary, I’ve gone on a bit of a rant, I guess but to answer it in summary is the fact that it’s a compounding over time, and it’s something that you can only get through experience and even how we approach projects I feel now and our thought process and everything, we can educate people on how they need to think. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:07:42:120 – 00:07:58:230)
Absolutely. And that’s important. But I think the ideas, the strategies that we take and everything now is impossible to get without just a massive amount of experience. You can’t achieve that without having, I guess, a lot of projects and a lot of experience and learning from those things. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:07:59:030 – 00:08:19:180)
Yeah, the mindset where we are right now is it took us some time we started with tech for the sake of tech. While I was doing this research around this digital transformation thing, 70 to 80% of the digital transformation fail, because the industry is all around, oh, they want to use this tech, tech, tech, tech, tech or new technology, whatever that comes in. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:08:19:190 – 00:08:33:020)
They want to use it and experimenting with it. Experimenting is a good thing. But one other thing I wanted to put forward is that not all the business has unlimited amount of funds and resources to invest on, experiment on. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:08:33:020 – 00:08:54:070)
I agree and an example of people really saying what are you talking about? Give me a practical example. And one of them would be, AI, like it’s it’s less hype than it was, you know, let’s say two years ago. Obviously it’s still hype. There’s a lot of funding getting done for it and everything, but there’s massive potential use cases for at the same time, so many people are implementing it in just terrible ways. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:08:54:070 – 00:09:11:170)
And we’ve talked about this even for ourselves around, you know, the key to it is structured data. And the data, you know, that we have to actually provide the context, etc.. But so many people are implementing a glorified chat bot, which is literally just a reskinned OpenAI and its like well. Yeah. Like what what benefit is that bringing to me? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:09:11:170 – 00:09:32:030)
And I again, we’ll come back to simplicity, outcome driven digital transformation. Like why are you doing it? Tell me very specifically, okay, so what we’re trying to do with this and an example, I’ll literally talked to a potential prospect about this example that we’ve discussed and worked on before, but is if we build out customer portal, right, for example, and we have all of our what we say generic or stock standard things in a customer portal. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:09:32:030 – 00:09:52:110)
But a lot of the challenges I’ve been presented before are like, oh, but our customers want to send POs, right? They email us or whatever they want to send POs. It’s like, okay, how do we structure the data and the infrastructure so we can essentially just take the emails or the phone calls, even a genuinely good being the key thing, AI experience, where it processes either that email or phone call puts it in the portal in the back end, essentially but basically, 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:09:52:170 – 00:10:14:200)
I’m oversimplifying here, but you get the point, right? Where essentially they can keep doing the same kind of process they’re doing, which is changing what we do on our end to be more efficient, right? To increase that profit. And suddenly we’ve built something that scales, right. We can receive 20,000 orders in an hour. Yes, it’s going to cost us a bit in processing, but we literally, there’s no way we could do that as a human team right? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:10:14:200 – 00:10:35:130)
But suddenly we built a system that scalable and I’m using extremes here. But that that’s the idea. Is that okay, suddenly you can then say, okay, that’s a genuine, well-thought-out business case for our specific business that is going to pull one of these levers. It’s going to increase our profitability and enable scale and build enterprise value. If we do it properly, that’s outcome driven digital transformation. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:10:35:130 – 00:10:43:000)
Just focusing on the sake of tech for tech sake and just shiny objects and running around doing that is not a genuine digital transformation. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:10:43:000 – 00:10:50:220)
It’s not digital transformation until unless it’s PSV Thinking® and then it’s driven, it would be a distraction. It’s just a distraction. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:10:50:220 – 00:10:52:150)
100%, Yeah. Cost money, doesn’t get results. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:10:52:150 – 00:10:56:080)
Doesn’t get results and you land up nowhere, the business lands up nowhere, it’s just a distraction for the business. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:10:56:080 – 00:11:22:110)
Absolutely. And we know this again obviously through the extensive projects we’re working on and have worked on, but also we’re doing this to ourselves, right? We know this, where we do this to ourselves with what we do with clients. And it’s the same thing. I think we’ve taken on our own initiatives. I remember without sharing all the details, but, you know, we worked on an initiative for the time and whilst the core idea was okay, it was just fundamentally flawed, it wasn’t tied to any business outcomes. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:11:22:110 – 00:11:39:000)
It wasn’t. And what did it do? All it did was cost us money, we didn’t get anywhere, we didn’t achieve anything with it and we actually lot went backwards. We lost time. We lost money. Whereas now how we approaching things is a completely different mindset and you can see is a completely different prospect on return on investment basically. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:11:39:000 – 00:12:01:000)
Yeah, I totally know what you’re referring to. The database design we were working on. While I was preparing for this podcast, It was the database design what we were working on. I was totally relating to it, actually. I was like, oh, now we are in the right direction. Initially we were just doing me, myself, I could say it’s like embedding technology, technology here and there, here and there. There wasn’t our outcome. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:12:01:020 – 00:12:17:160)
Now the thought process is different. Is this technology? With this bit what is the profit or what value is creating? Do you have any client experience that we can share with our audience here, which was like very expensive tech for the sake of tech event or experience, something like that? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:12:17:220 – 00:12:33:140)
Yeah there is a few examples off the top, we’ve obviously worked with various clients I guess. Obviously I’m not going to give away specific details, but just in general there’s been lots of portals or builds, app builds, I’ve seen app builds in the millions you know, for what I would, not going to say smaller companies, but, you know, not corporates or anything like that. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:12:33:140 – 00:12:48:140)
There where there was significant investments for those businesses and millions for any business is still a significant investment. The point of it is, is that everything we’ve been talking about, it was like, oh, we just thought, you know, we needed to build an app. And we had this idea and they said we needed to do this. And so we did it. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:12:48:140 – 00:13:03:090)
And then, yeah, it didn’t get anywhere. And like when you dive into it, there was no strategic objectives. It wasn’t outcome driven. And on top of all of that, they had a bad partner that they were working with, which is yeah, a lot of the responsibility lands on them, but not only them. But the idea is that where was the business case? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:13:03:090 – 00:13:23:210)
Where were we tying these back to, you know, to what we actually needed to achieve? And who was the one that actually was like, okay, these are the specific cases of how this is going to drive. You know, those levers pull those levers in the right direction. One of the worst ones publicly that we can talk about is, I know, I don’t know every single detail of this here, but I know DHL tried to do a SAP implementation from memory. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:13:23:210 – 00:13:45:110)
It was between, I think it was around 400 million just off the top of my head that they spent on that implementation, and it failed. I don’t, obviously we’re not part of it. There would have been two sides to every story, there would have been reasons why, etc., etc. that doesn’t change the fact that fundamentally, even if it was 40 million, 100 million, whatever, a massive amount of money was spent on something that essentially got scrapped. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:13:45:110 – 00:14:02:050)
And can you imagine how many resources could have been deployed right, for that amount of money? And if it was done properly, and it was actually focused on those those outcomes? Now, when you’re dealing with a corporate of that scale, of the global, of course it’s it’s incredibly difficult. There’s so many moving parts. Right? It’s not to say it’s easy. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:14:02:050 – 00:14:20:050)
It’s not the point. But if there wasn’t a clear business case and a roadmap to success and return on investment, why was it started? Then, secondly, if there was, then where did it go wrong? I guess that’s what I would say. And there’s so many businesses without banging on like a broken record or sounding cliche, whatever. But it’s the fact it’s already what we’ve discussed. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:14:20:050 – 00:14:43:130)
It’s tech for the sake of tech, and it’s not focusing on outcomes. It’s features over outcomes, which is just the complete wrong way and I’ll tell you now to sum up the client experience, every one that we’ve seen that’s been bad has been exactly, exactly that. Now, there are specific cases where if you’ve had a bad technical partner or an implementation partner or something like that there, where where builds have going wrong and things like that there, but that’s less, that’s not really what we’re talking about here. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:14:43:130 – 00:15:00:180)
Obviously, that is just execution of what we’re talking about. So yeah, if you’ve got bad execution then yeah, obviously that’s not going to work. But no matter what, the problems and the clients issues that we’ve had and everything else, have still come back to this point like people have released. Let’s take, for example, a customer portal, a significant amount of investment. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:15:00:180 – 00:15:16:170)
One of their clients, we actually replatformed, e.g. we rebuilt the whole thing, but was the fact that it was built terribly. That was one of the things, you could speak more about that on the engineering side, but that’s just keeping it simple, that’s what it was. But just the whole thing, like just it was like, let’s add this feature, let’s add this feature, let’s add this. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:15:16:170 – 00:15:35:080)
And I’m and I was asking like, have you done customer research? What are we actually trying to do business wise? Like what’s the goals here. Like what do we actually trying to effect. And a lot of people say, and I’m rambling on to much here but I guess, trying to get the point across, alot of people say, oh yeah, we want to increase sales. That’s as helpful as a hole in the head. Like we need to be very specific to say we’re going to get 80% of our revenue through digital in three years. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:15:35:100 – 00:15:54:010)
That’s more specific. Or we want to generate 50 million through digital in this year, or we want to onboard 100 or 1000 new distributors. And it should be all digital, all of it, the entire onboard, whatever it is, but something very specific. And then we reverse it. You say, okay, we’re going to do 80% of sales digitally, which means that, we’ve got no sales at the moment digitally. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:15:54:010 – 00:16:17:130)
I’m just saying as, a hypothetical. Suddenly the thought processes what needs to happen to make that happen. Right? And it’s not just, oh, we need to add a login feature, we need to add this. We need to go and speak to customers, and then we need to think practically as to the entire user experience and journey to say, okay, coming back to our EdgeFactor®, what can we build in a way that no one else has done that makes it as easy as possible for them to do business with us? 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:16:17:170 – 00:16:44:130)
While some digital transformations fail its not only about losing the money, the company’s morale, the team members’ morale also goes down. And totally, it’s not only customer money, the time and money, the whole morale goes down. And one other thing I wanted to add here is that, ok so digital transformation, we do digital transformation, everyone is into digital transformation, I have seen and you might have also, you have a lot of experience around the clients, so you, one of the clients we were working with, like they wanted to do, build everything, but with the assumptions their customer might need this. Until and unless we don’t do proper research on what the customer actually needs, they won’t use it, with assumptions we can’t build it. That’s also where I think where the digital transformation fails. What do you think about it? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:16:46:140 – 00:17:03:230)
And its assumptions with… I totally agree with what you’re saying, but I would just again just simplify it, it’s assumptions across everything. Assumptions like, we need this feature. Well do you? right. It’s assumptions that this person understands what I’m saying. They understand my business logic. Like we see that so much time with, you know, clients just expect you to understand their business. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:17:03:230 – 00:17:23:110)
That’s our job to as quickly as possible grasp that. Couldn’t agree more. There’s just assumptions, communication breakdowns and assumptions across everything. So we assume that clients want this but we don’t actually research it. When you’re working with a partner or a vendor, you assume they know this, but you’ve never told them. Right. As an engineer, we assume this rather than seeking clarification from the client or something like that there. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:17:23:110 – 00:17:41:110)
Whatever it is, absolutely agree. We just assume that we know what we need to do. And again, there’s no clear, I guess, strategic roadmap and or business case research and everything else that we can point back to and say this particular feature is going to move the needle in the right direction in regards to increasing profitability. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:17:41:110 – 00:17:56:110)
More specifically, it’s going to get us towards this North Star. That’s one of the other things we talk about, which is like the overall objective of what we’re actually trying to do with this, whatever initiative it is. And we can clearly demonstrate that most of the time with most teams, you go to them and say, okay, so why are you actually doing it? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:17:56:110 – 00:18:12:110)
They’re like, oh yeah, we thought, you know, we had this great idea for this app. And so we just started building it. And then we wonder why, like two years down the road, we’re way over budget and we’ve released something that no one wants to use, and not to keep ranting on, but I just it’s come to me now, as we’ve been talking about as well. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:18:12:110 – 00:18:40:000)
One key part of this I will say for anyone listening, focusing on, it takes more investment and time and resource than you realise to do something properly. What I mean by properly is not release a crappy app, a crappy experience. You can, what we’re talking about here is not just building a new website or building a portal. We’re talking way further on than that and talking about embedding technology and digital first in the business and creating what we call your add your EdgeFactor®. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:18:40:020 – 00:18:58:150)
But that is, you’re creating a blend of technology, your own technology, your own offering, your digital experience, all of that blended into one, your own platform, which is the reason you can do business. And it’s the number one selling point. It becomes the number one selling point for your business. In order to achieve that, then you need to invest. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:18:58:150 – 00:19:19:190)
You need to have the right partner, and it takes more time and effort than people realise. Why I say that is so often people think that, oh yeah, it’s easy. We can just build an app oh, this person’s done an app. They don’t realise the level of effort that needs to go into it, not only just to create something that’s one thing, but to create something that is exceptional and incredibly well designed, incredibly well thought out. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:19:19:200 – 00:19:36:000)
It takes a lot of time and resource. That shouldn’t be something that scares you. It should be something that you’re aware of. Most importantly, and from the fact that when you get it right, the payoff is huge. That’s why it’s not easy to do. Right. And then people go and release these crappy apps that have been built by teams with no experience. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:19:36:060 – 00:19:54:090)
They haven’t put in the effort, they cut down the budget. You know, they, or they’re looking for the cheapest option, they’re looking for, you know, everything. And then they wonder why the reason, oh yeah, it’s a waste of, oh yeah, we knew it was a waste of time. It’s like yeah, like no joke. You haven’t given it the proper resources and attention and time it needs for actually to function properly. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:19:54:100 – 00:20:06:030)
One thing, like while you’re talking to, while you select client or while you are talking to the potential clients, do you even rate them? Or as in, I didnt get the better word to this, to say it. How do we disqualify a client? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:20:06:050 – 00:20:32:020)
Yeah, it’s yeah, it’s a very interesting question. Yeah, yeah. It’s good rating, qualification. We do. Absolutely. The key points to it is are they focused on growth and do they genuinely believe that technology can help them grow as a business and do things that they can’t do without it? If that makes any sense. If someone comes and says, oh, we’re just looking to build a new website, then we’re not the company to work for them, right? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:20:32:020 – 00:20:55:100)
As in, if you’re happy with the status quo and you just want to build a website, then you’re unlocking 5% of the potential of what tech could do for your business. Less than that 1%. If someone comes to me and says, and I’ll just give you a roundabout example from actual examples that have come to us, but they come to us and say, we’ve got this problem in the business, could be about their design flow, it could be about increasing average order value per customer. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:20:55:110 – 00:21:13:200)
They could have had their own idea. And we’ve had ideas for the people actually bringing, you know, we’re starting to get into the hardware space and IoT and that kind of thing where people are building out, they’re blending that, that software with that hardware and building their own offerings in that regard. But they’re like, hey, we’ve got this. We see an opportunity here, and the opportunity could be doubling the business. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:21:13:200 – 00:21:31:040)
It could be a new product line, it could be all of this stuff. And we know if we do it right, we’ll get the returns, but we don’t know how to get there. Essentially, we’ve got an idea what can we do to get there essentially. Is is this worth exploring? And is there is there potential here that we can grab? If someone come and says, oh, we want to build an app. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:21:31:060 – 00:21:51:190)
We know exactly what we need. We’ve only got X amount of money. And, give us a quote. It’s like you don’t know exactly what you need. You’ve already decided what needs to be done. 99% of the time. They haven’t even done customer research or the research that I’ve done is extremely surface level. They send out one survey saying, what do you do business with this? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:21:51:200 – 00:22:08:200)
Or if we release an app, what would you want? Don’t get me wrong, it’s helpful, but that that’s the level of information. If you’re coming with that mindset, then you’re already off on the wrong foot. You should be asking the question of like setting the vision of like, if we could get here, if that makes any sense, if we could get to this point. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:22:08:200 – 00:22:24:130)
Right. And imagine if we had 80% of our orders digitally, what would we have to do? Or if we were to double the business overnight, what would break first? How do we fix that with tech? That is a completely different mindset to, oh, we want to build a website. We don’t really care about it. And here’s exactly what we want to. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:22:24:140 – 00:22:40:040)
We want to build an app or we want to do this. It’s a mindset that it’s a fixed mindset. That is where it’s like we already know what we want give us a price quote. It’s like saying, you used a good example the other day where you’re like, you can go and buy a Hyundai off the shelf or whatever like that there, or a Rolls Royce. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:22:40:040 – 00:23:01:090)
Yes, there are. And flaws in that analogy, but more the point of saying, some people say, oh yeah, the Rolls-Royce is just a premium thing but it doesn’t necessarily get you from A to B any quicker. Yeah, absolutely, I get that. But the thought process is the fact that you are creating something that actually works and is, you’re giving the Rolls-Royce experience to your customers, your employees, your, whoever it is. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:23:01:090 – 00:23:19:170)
Right. Whoever the end target user is, they feel like they’re using the Rolls-Royce, which makes them want to deal with you. That’s your EdgeFactor®. If they feel like they are getting the Hyundai, everyone else has the Hyundai, why? Why am I going to use you? Worst case, it’s an old Hyundai that breaks down every ten kilometers. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:23:19:170 – 00:23:37:190)
So instead they ring you up and get a taxi, right? That’s the point. And that’s the idea is that then. Okay. Yeah. We we provide a taxi that goes. But it’s it’s inefficient. The point is, build the experience of the Rolls-Royce, then use that to scale. Again. It’s not the perfect analogy, I get that, but I guess that’s the point. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:23:37:190 – 00:23:52:090)
And that’s what we look out for. And I guess it’s not just like us qualifying clients when projects come to us. That’s part of it, I guess. But, well it’s a big part of it. But I can tell immediately just from, it’s nothing to do with me, but it’s just the experience of doing it so many times. Who’s got the right mindset? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:23:52:110 – 00:24:08:160)
Right of like, I guess, let’s just dumb it down, simplify it more, people that want advice and are willing to learn. They say we see an opportunity. We want someone to help us. How can you help? That, versus we just want to build it, we know what we need or it just needs a simple login screen and we just want to add orders and that’s it. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:24:08:160 – 00:24:17:230)
Great. You’re building what everyone else is building. Fantastic. You can do that. That’s great for you. You’re welcome to do that. But that’s not going to establish you as a leader in your industry. That’s just a fact. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:24:17:230 – 00:24:28:060)
If someone comes to you to build an experience for the customer, we are there for them. A good experience! Experience is bad also, I get it. But good experience! Yeah. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:24:28:080 – 00:24:50:010)
The way I would sum it up, it’s not even just the customers, right? It’s the employees. Whatever it is, it could be the operations team, whatever. Like someone where, again, we’ve worked on these projects where people have had nearly entirely paper based project, sorry, operations workflows and project management processes and all that kind of thing, like nearly entirely paper based, or they’ve been in digital systems, but there’s 15 of them and there’s no consistency, nothing, a lot of inefficiency. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:24:50:010 – 00:25:07:090)
And then essentially we’re trying to help them go, okay, again, how do we turn this into part of your EdgeFactor®, where we build out a platform that runs the operations and gives you insight such as, that you’d never been able to get if you hadn’t have built that yourself. And again, a lot of people have tried this and failed and say, Oh, it’s a waste of time. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:25:07:120 – 00:25:24:220)
It doesn’t work. That’s the point. It wasn’t done properly, right? We weren’t focusing on the right things and it’s so complex. But it’s like, don’t start with how do we use X tech or X feature to do X? Start with, what do we want to do? Where’s the biggest problems? And then how could we potentially solve them? Right. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:25:24:230 – 00:25:40:190)
It could be sales, it could be operations, it could be customer experience, customer service. How could we not only solve them but solve them in a way that again, coming back to the EdgeFactor® thing, no one else has done that is incredibly hard to copy and means that people do business with us because of that very reason. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:25:40:190 – 00:25:58:000)
That’s the point. And it’s the same. Take the business part out of it, and it’s the same thing with team members. And we’re doing this, we’re doing the same process to ourselves right now. How do we build an employee experience, a team experience? Obviously there’s culture, right? There’s benefits. There’s all of these things that are outside of this that play a part. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:25:58:060 – 00:26:21:120)
Absolutely. But on top of that, if your mindset, even the point of us saying with what we’re doing internally right now, the mindset helps the culture, the whole point of it is it’s like building something where it’s like team members want to be here, right? If that makes sense. And then how do we use that tech to further that objective to make their lives as easy as possible, to coach them, to help them improve, to give them the best experience? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:26:21:120 – 00:26:22:220)
And that’s what we’re doing right now. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:26:22:220 – 00:26:45:170)
It’s not just, we trying to implement in our clients business, we try to implement and then that thought process on us. It makes us like, the thought process, even the EdgeFactor® thing, the PSV Thinking®. While we were discussing for the first time, it gave me goosebumps, seriously, the way we thought it, and then the applications we were building. Oh, it makes more sense now. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:26:45:170 – 00:26:48:060)
So everyone has like a reason to work for. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:26:48:070 – 00:27:11:130)
Yeah. And then we’re going to be taking that same thing and delivering the same. It’s the same principle to clients. I’ll be the first to admit we’ve made so many mistakes dealing with clients. We’ve learned from them with, you know, there’s been clients that have had bad experiences. Clients have had great experiences. But one thing I will say is we’ve learnt from them and now we’re we’ve got to yeah, we’re in a position now where, yeah, we we have got to a point where, we’re not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:27:11:130 – 00:27:33:040)
We’ve still got a lot to learn. But I guess the point of is we’re learning from mistakes and we’re constantly improving. And and our mindset is how do we do in the industry and with what we’re doing, how do we give a client experience that no one else can give? And that is so hard to replicate? And if you take that mindset, if you start, if you let yourself go and don’t limit yourself, the possibilities are endless. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:27:33:040 – 00:27:47:020)
And now at the end of the day, people come back, say, oh yeah, but then your just, your head’s in the clouds and you just coming up with these random ideas that aren’t practical. It’s not the point when you bring PSV Thinking® into it, it solves that problem. It’s like, okay, which part of this actually is going to move the needle? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:27:47:020 – 00:28:07:000)
Okay. Let’s focus on that. So it’s not just about coming up with random head in the cloud ideas that are completely stupid and shiny objects and everything else. It’s about setting a vision of where you like it would be amazing, it would be incredible for us to be able to get to this position of experience or again, not focus on features. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:28:07:010 – 00:28:15:000)
It’s focusing on the outcome of what we want to actually achieve, bringing in the PSV Thinking®, that aligns you to the business. Suddenly it’s like, this is a no brainer. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:28:15:040 – 00:28:25:060)
Until and unless you don’t know where to go, PSV Thinking® gives you where to go. What’s the vision, wheres the goal? Technology, tech is just a pathway. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:28:25:090 – 00:28:27:060)
Correct. It’s a means to an end, right? 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:28:27:070 – 00:28:40:040)
But you need to know where to go. A lot of businesses is doing I want to drive this car, so let’s drive it. But you don’t know where to go with that car. PSV Thinking® is, PSV Thinking® gives you the where to go. The definition to that. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:28:40:040 – 00:28:55:210)
100%, and like using a practical example here, and not to pick on any specific platform, but let’s just say we pick on two of them for the sake, for the sake of this example, if you’re a Shopify agency, what do you recommend when you, if you only work with Shopify, like, then you only work with Shopify. Don’t get me wrong. There’s a market for that, but it’s not this market. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:28:55:210 – 00:29:15:100)
It’s not at this level that what we’re talking about right. And not to say Shopify is bad. It’s not. Like we’ve used it before in projects, where it makes sense. The point of it is, if you’re limited to that thinking. And yes, you can bring all the technologies in and all of that. I’m talking about the people that are specifically focused on one thing. Say for example, okay, we only do Netsuite ERP implementations. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:29:15:100 – 00:29:39:150)
Great. That is fantastic when you very much needed a Netsuite ERP implementation amd that’s the only thing you need right. But in my opinion, so many of these things, and whether its Shopify, Netsuite or any other technology, whatever it is, so many of the the wrong things get done that don’t drive those outcomes. And what I mean by that, there is like you go and implement new ERP and it solves, it gets you 5% further ahead, 10% further ahead or whatever. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:29:39:170 – 00:30:00:020)
And I’m not saying you shouldn’t implement ERPs either. That’s not my point. All I’m saying is, so much of the time we’re focusing on the wrong things, had we even kept going with the old ERP and built our own brand value, if that makes sense, with maybe if we built our own platform that was layered on top of it, we could have solved the issues that we were having and built out an experience that no one even thought was possible. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:30:00:020 – 00:30:17:110)
And this is what, like I think most people, this is why it doesn’t even get thought about. Most people don’t know what’s possible in these positions, and most to be honest, people in our position, I would actually argue, don’t have the mindset, not all of them, I’m just saying that there are a lot of people are just thinking, oh, so we’re going to implement X, Y, and Z. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:30:17:110 – 00:30:36:230)
So that’s what we focus on. It’s like, they’re not thinking what’s in the best interest for this business long term? Holistically looking at how do we actually help them go from 100 million to 150 and not increase headcount and reduce, you know, all of these kind of things where and again, I’m over-generalising and people will be like, oh yeah, there’s heaps of people that do that. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:30:36:230 – 00:30:53:070)
Yes, I get that. But at the end of the day, you need to focus on the outcomes and then work backwards from there. And that’s why I’m saying, I have, I do see issues with focusing like businesses that go to like, oh, we need to build a portal. Even that kind of scenario, oh we need to build a customer portal. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:30:53:120 – 00:31:10:070)
And they go and speak to an agency that does a specific technology. You’re limited to that. Like there’s nothing else to say. You’re limited to that. Not only that, typically and again over-generalising but I’m typically saying their mindset is all in. This is how we did it in the past. This is how we can, as quickly make profit from this and implement with Shopify 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:31:10:070 – 00:31:29:150)
It’s not how can we help this businesses create their EdgeFactor®? That’s not their process, their process is, how can they fit you in their mould as to, oh yeah, great, you’ve got a B2B portal, but guess what? It’s the same as everyone else. It’s no different. You’re the exact same as everyone. You’ve got no competitive difference. You’re just doing the basics. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:31:29:170 – 00:31:47:180)
There’s no thought process challenging the business and even saying, why are you thinking about doing this? We should be focusing on this, right? And the majority of the times, just to come back to that, I’m ranting on way too much, but the majority of the times clients come back to us is they’ll come to us even with an idea or a thought process and what we actually end up focusing on. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:31:47:200 – 00:32:05:020)
Yes, the seed is there from the original idea and everything, but they are like, Wow. I’ve never thought of it that way. And that’s the point. Our job is not just to say, oh, give us a bullet point list of what you want. Our job is to say, what’s the business? Where’s the opportunities? How can we help you use tech to unlock that? 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:32:05:080 – 00:32:09:100)
That’s actually the best mindset. Actually, the thought process is our EdgeFactor®. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:32:29:000 – 00:32:42:160)
We’re behind where we would want to be. With that, I would just say that openly, ourselves, what we want to do. But we’re making rapid progress in getting up to speed of where we want to be. But it isn’t some fandangle ideas or anything. It’s all rooted in experience. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:32:42:210 – 00:33:08:070)
One thing I wanted to add here is like, we as Intuji, it’s not that we might not ever suggest Shopify. If it’s the case that that specific tool solves your problem, then we would. The problem, if it exactly fits in, then it’s the solution. If not, we’ll first dig into your problem, dig into problem as hard as possible as far as possible and then we will go, oh, this is the scale they want. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:33:08:080 – 00:33:17:080)
This is, the client needs this kind of scale okay. So if this is the scale, we go this tool. The problem defines the tool. It’s not the tool defines the problem, kind of thing. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:33:17:080 – 00:33:31:210)
100%. And and and I would even add to that to say it’s not necessarily even the problem. It’s the opportunity. It’s not just the problem. It’s the opportunity, it’s the vision, it’s the vision of the, it’s like the vision defines what we use. The vision and, most people need to work with us to map out the vision and work out okay. Actually, what are we trying to solve here? What are we trying to do? And to be clear, for the record, I got nothing against Shopify, nothing against Netsuite. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:33:31:220 – 00:33:56:140)
We do a lot of work with both of them. It’s nothing to do with, I just use them as examples. I do have something against Magento, but that’s another story. But it’s the fact of saying, like the majority of platforms, we’re technology agnostic with, to use a fancy word, it’s nothing to do with the technology. And again, it’s just I was we using it to illustrate a point that if you focus on the tech and you think that, oh, someone else has said they use Shopify and it’s brilliant, or someone else this and this, that and everything else. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:33:56:140 – 00:34:15:210)
Or this agency said, you’re already focusing on the wrong thing. You’re already off on the wrong foot. The whole thing should be. And to keep it simple is, how do we create our EdgeFactor® using technology? And your EdgeFactor® basically means an experience, a platform, anything that you can give to clients that cannot be easily copied and replicated, is unique to you. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:34:15:210 – 00:34:37:090)
Means that people do business with you because of that very reason, right? And it enables you to increase profit, enable scale and build enterprise value. Now, just a caveat to that. Most people’s EdgeFactor®, especially with technology, is a website, a portal. That’s their standard. Thats absolutely, that is just a, it’s an expected at this point. It’s a it’s a given. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:34:37:090 – 00:34:56:060)
One example I use, and I’ve used this product a lot of times, is Wise. We use it, me and you, remember when we first were working together, we actually used Worldremit actually was the first one we ever used. But then very quickly we moved across to TransferWise. Right. And we’ve used it for what me and you’ve been working together for nine years now. I reckon it’s probably eight years, just trying to do the calculations. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:34:56:080 – 00:35:16:180)
Probably about eight years maybe off of my head that we’ve been using Transferwise and then they’ve rebranded to Wise. When they rebranded to Wise they were one of the brands that I think got it absolutely right. Like, they are, it is so easy to use. There’s other products out there. There’s other competitors out there. I don’t even consider them because Wise’s experience is their EdgeFactor®. Literally like they are just so easy to use. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:35:16:200 – 00:35:35:120)
Everything is well thought out. I don’t need to go to a branch or deal with this or everything. I do what I want, whenever I want it works intuitive and their experience, their application, their product is why I use Wise. And why we use Wise, we use it for work as well, right? I use it personally. We use it for work. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:35:35:120 – 00:35:52:010)
Another example here in Australia specifically is Bunnings have PowerPass, right? Which is their, you know, PowerPass, you know Bunnings. But it is that their application. I think it’s okay. I think it could, I personally believe it could be dramatically improved. But to a degree that is you know what we would regard as Bunning’s EdgeFactor®. Yes. They’ve got they have the lowest prices. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:35:52:010 – 00:36:07:160)
They do the price beat, they’re I wouldn’t say necessarily, I guess they are probably a monopoly but not necessarily the monopoly. But they’re a massive company here in Australia, where the hardware, in the hardware space. And the point of it is, is that yes, they’ve got all these other things that yes, they got their returns, they’ve got their lowest prices, don’t get me wrong. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:36:07:160 – 00:36:26:060)
And a lot of people have complaints about the PowerPass. Not everyone uses them for PowerPass. There’s a lot of customers that go in there and use other applications and things but, sorry, just go in there without the application – not using other applications – but go in there and just purchase what they need and walk out. We’re not saying that that’s not the not the case for that specific business. But the point is, how do we use something like PowerPass as an example to just further the objectives of the organisation? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:36:26:060 – 00:36:52:170)
Are they are they really achieving everything they possibly could with it, if that makes sense. And that’s where again, Bunnings being that size, it’s less of a threat because when you’re that big, right it obviously is less of a threat. Still a threat but less of a threat. What I would say as a smaller like a medium business, this has actually come to my mind of, I’ll actually say this to companies as well, that we talk to about potential clients. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:36:52:190 – 00:37:14:190)
Let’s just imagine, take your business, replicate same customer service, same product, same everything turned up tomorrow as a competitor. Just just realistically it’s a thought exercise. But they had the means and resources behind them and they were investing heavily in creating this EdgeFactor® in their their digital transformation. And it wasn’t bad. It was good. How quickly would you be able to survive and what risk would that expose? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:37:14:220 – 00:37:30:110)
It doesn’t mean you’re going out of business necessarily immediately if you don’t do anything. That’s not the point. I’m not trying to be doomsday here, but it’s a thought process to say, if that happens, we’re exposed and we probably should start thinking about about reducing it. And on top of all of that, it’s not just about the risks and the problems. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:37:30:110 – 00:37:38:130)
It’s like what are you missing out on? On opportunities that other people aren’t taking, that if you just did stuff properly and gave that level of experience you would get. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:37:38:130 – 00:37:59:120)
One thing, when you’re talking about Bunnings, I’ve been to Bunnings, we have been to Bunnings together. What I saw was like the the storage units are properly planned out and buying there, physically buying there is an experience going through all this. Everything is sorted out. But I’ve seen you use the app and I was looking through the app as well and it’s not the same experience. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:37:59:120 – 00:38:09:100)
That’s where I thought like, okay, physically like the storage is properly managed and everything. Now the shopping experience, online shopping experience works, but not an experience, I’d say. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:38:09:150 – 00:38:29:100)
Agree, agree. And that, I will just say, and if you want to talk specifically about Bunnings, and that’s the point, is like, if anyone’s listening from Bunnings, it’s well you can take this as feedback. But I guess like one of the things, for example, and they haven’t obviously refactored and re-architected it, they’ve obviously had a, I don’t know the exact tech stack and how they’re using it, but they, they run PowerPass, which is the trade side of the business. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:38:29:100 – 00:38:48:020)
Obviously, and what technology they’re using, I’m not sure. But they get a very antiquated, how they’re using their auth right, their authentication essentially obviously is incredibly frustrating. And I don’t remember the exact thing, but if you forget your, like resetting your password, if you lock, if you entered into the PowerPass app too many times it locks you out and then you have to call customer support. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:38:48:040 – 00:39:05:020)
Next thing is, if you link your PowerPass to more than two devices, you have to call customer support to get them to. And now I haven’t tried this in the last couple of months. Thatmaybe has changed and I haven’t looked into. But again, just in, that’s what I remember, right? It wasn’t easy as or where everything was sorted like? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:39:05:040 – 00:39:22:060)
And even thinking, do you know those applications where you like it feels like a website, do you know what I mean, like it. Yeah. It just doesn’t work. You know what I mean? Like when you go to the Wise app, we use that. We’ve already done them. It just, it’s an app and it works. Right. Like it just, but then you go to something and you’re like, this feels like a website that’s been made, right? 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:39:22:060 – 00:39:35:220)
Like it’s not an app where it just works. And I guess that’s why I feel they could they could improve on that. Anyway, I don’t know how we even got onto Bunnings. I was simply trying to use it as example to say, to me, their EdgeFactor® digitally, they’ve obviously got their retail. So this is more on the trade side. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:39:35:220 – 00:39:50:160)
I’m talking on the trade side because that’s more related to what we do, but is the PowerPass and is that, how do they, their objectives should be, how do they use that, which they’ve already got their own dedicated teams and they’re doing no doubt looking at those things every day. But I think there’s there’s a lot of room for improvement there. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:39:50:170 – 00:40:05:130)
It’s the same thing with you just do. Obviously we get to travel a bit with work and different things like that there. And you use different airlines applications, right? You would have had this as well. You use the applications and and some, one I, Qantas’s is getting better, but like it’s just, parts of it are still a website. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:40:05:130 – 00:40:20:020)
So you go to book a flight and it opens their website, if that makes sense, rather than just doing it in the application. And they would have reasons for that, no doubt it’s obviously their architecture, I’m assuming, because why, it obviously was easier for them to do that than trying to build it into the actual application themselves was just to use their existing infrastructure. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:40:20:020 – 00:40:41:000)
But I don’t know. It just makes a difference. It does make a difference. Like when, you know, things are so easy. And there’s a reason Amazon, and I know, again I’ll talk from experience. I use Amazon a lot to order things because again, do they have the nicest UI and things like that there? No, not necessarily, but they have built a massive business off the back of just making it convenient and easy. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:40:41:000 – 00:40:47:140)
How convenient and easy are you making it for your team, for your customers and everything else basically. And that’s a hard question to answer. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:40:47:160 – 00:41:08:080)
I know, we can talk about this. You are my inspiration firstly. We can talk about this and then I can learn all day long. As our guest whoever or the audience, whoever’s listening to us, can learn a lot, but it’s now time to wrap this all up for this week. And then to wrap this up, I would like to give you, Julian, an opportunity to summarise in a minute or two how digital transformation works, what you need to consider to make it work, acutally. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:41:08:080 – 00:41:26:140)
Actually, I guess my advice to any business listening would be you need to focus on how are you using technology to create your EdgeFactor®, which is what we’ve talked about this whole episode, and your EdgeFactor® being your competitive edge. How you making it more convenient? How you introducing making it easy for your customers, your team, whatever it is. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:41:26:140 – 00:41:47:080)
How are you using tech to to build that EdgeFactor®? Create that EdgeFactor®, using PSV Thinking®, which is essentially outcome driven digital transformation. You have to focus on increasing profitability, enabling scale and building enterprise value. And if you’re not focusing on those three key areas, then it’s not going to work right. It’s as simple as that. It’s not easy to do. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:41:47:100 – 00:42:10:220)
It’s the thought process is as simple as that, where we need to focus. Working at how we actually create that genuine EdgeFactor®, again, we said earlier the EdgeFactor®, some people think it’s releasing a new website with a new design. That’s not your EdgeFactor®. Everyone does that. Everyone’s got the capability to do that. The EdgeFactor® is when you’ve got people talking about you, like we’re talking about Wise, right. That is what your EdgeFactor® is. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:42:10:220 – 00:42:22:080)
That is when you know, okay, we’ve actually achieved that level of success, I guess, with this type of stuff. And if you do it properly and you focus on those three key areas, you’ll have success with it. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:42:22:100 – 00:42:33:010)
Thanks, Julian. Thanks for summarising this. The experience that Wise gives you as an app is very good, yeah, that’s their EdgeFactor® I guess. Anyways, Thanks guys for joining in. Hope you guys have a great day ahead, and we will join you guys next week. Same time, same day. Thanks guys. 

Julian Wallis, CEO at Intuji (00:42:33:030 – 00:42:34:200)
Thanks mate, I appreciate it. 

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:42:34:220 – 00:42:35:070)
Thanks mate.

Ritesh Shah, CTO at Intuji (00:42:36:070 – 00:43:17:070)
That’s a wrap on this episode of The Disruptors. If you’re serious about unlocking your EdgeFactor®, the thing that sets your business apart and helps it grow sustainably, don’t forget to follow, share, and leave a quick review. We’ll be back next week with more real-world insights and no-fluff conversations on how to rethink your systems, modernise operations and build value that lasts. Until then — stay sharp, stay focused, and keep disrupting.